SeoulPodcast #41: Relevance of the English Media

Feb 6, 2009 by

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The Christian Bale English Hagwon — “English Done Professionally”

PANELISTS
Bart Schaneman (The Korea Herald)
Robert Koehler (The Marmot’s Hole)
“Skinny” Steve Ward (Seoul Steves)
Stafford Lumsden (The Chosun Bimbo)

MAIN TOPIC

Is the English language media relevant?

For Cinco de Mayo – SeouLoco

NEWS AND STUFF

Police: Gunpo Student Killer Is Serial Murderer

Should Killers’ Faces Be Revealed?

Protestor Sets Fire to Police Jacket

Minerva Claims Telecom Law Unconstitutional

In addition, Park’s defendants said that his post wasn’t false as it had been confirmed that government officials did indeed request institutions to refrain from buying dollars.

Cambodian Woman Stabs Korean Husband

Mystery Deaths Haunt Hankook Tire

Korea to Build Ultra-Broadband Internet by 2012

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO WHAA?

Hankyoreh Columnist: “Why Not Just Fire Pervert Teachers?”

First Evaluation of Seoul Judges Published

Oh, Those Mysterious Koreans

Korean Tourism Organization Offers Tenure to Sociologist After His Article in the Korea Times Calls Korea “Unique”

EXPAT COMMUNITY

Joshing Gnome’s a DADDY

Wife Gives Birth, I Photograph

English Teachers’ Pay Heading Up

SNU Hires First Foreign Professor of Korean Studies

 

Osan Airman Arrested After Leaving Base with Loaded Gun

 

TIME WASTERS OF THE WEEK

Interesting Menu Item

Hyundai Ad Hurts American Pride: Chosun

What studying English for seven years will do.

Photoshop of Korean protester makes the FAIL Blog

Making tracks on a luxury train – INSIDE JoongAng Daily

PLUGS
Buy Us a Beer

The Supplier
(those who have given us swag)

John Kim

Life of the Party
(those who have donated at least $20)
Kevin R.
Aaron Shearin
Naomi Neckoway
Chae An

Drinking Buddies
(those who have bought us beers)
Naomi Neckoway
Chae An
Aaron Shearin
Mimi Snider
Elton Fry
Therese MacSeain

GoToMyPC
Ex-Pat Living (The Korea Herald)
ESL Planet Recruiting
Twitter
SEOUL Magazine
ZenKimchi.com
KOTESOL

NEXT WEEK
Topic: Can expat radio really work?
Panelists: Daniel Gray (Seoul Eats, TBS eFM)

MUSIC
Main Theme — Ben McPherson – “2wksnyc”
News — satya – “Silk Route Album Mix”
Things That Make You Go Whaa? — cjacks – “Candyland”
ExPat Community — Deyo – “Retro90210fun”
Time Wasters of the Week — EV Boyz – “Kickin’ It in Geumchon”
The Suicide Denial
megaphone
Joe Sibol
Fortune for Tune
Tea Leaves
Sundown Caffeine
The Moot
Tyson Emanuel
Vincent Leeds
Namgyal Lhamo
Deyo
Naomi Yohani
Chong Jae-guk
Kang Jung-suk
High Alert Status
Byron Scullin
Brolax Bones
Kathy Reynolds
Stian

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  • Crwys

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politi
    A remix of Christian Bale's rant

  • Crwys

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politi
    A remix of Christian Bale's rant

  • Crwys

    Sounds like you were getting a blow job when you were doing the advertising for the Visit my PC advert.

  • Crwys

    Sounds like you were getting a blow job when you were doing the advertising for the Visit my PC advert.

  • Pingback: Open Thread #86 | The Marmot's Hole()

  • King Baeksu

    I only listened to the first hour up to the news part, but I do not think the title of the thread was addressed in a satisfactory way at all. Is the English media here relevant to Koreans or the Korean media? Not answered. Is the English language media here relevant to the outside world? Not answered. Again, we mainly get the myopic expat cybercentric attitude in which the Korean English-language media are judged — rather snootily and dismissively — by their relevance to the expat K-blogosphere, and in fact that issue was not even honestly addressed either, since the expat K-blogosphere is in fact entirely dependent on the local English-language media in an entirely parasitical and subsidiary manner. Get over yourselves already.

    Bart proved that he is no real journalist by the fact that he had an incredible source sitting right next to him and he failed to ask him any meaningful questions. Not only did Robert work at Korea's No. 1 newspaper (The Chosun Ilbo), he also reads the vernacular media here every day and no doubt could have offered many valuable insights into the local media landscape. You totally missed the story sitting right in front of your face, dude.

    Not that I really care, but I also thought it was funny when my name was brought up near the end of the first segment when gonzo journalism was mentioned — "That's very much Scott Burgeson's style" — and the response was a haughty "I don't know who that is" and continued on in its rather myopic, unfocused and irrelevant manner. A real journalist is curious above all else, but again that test was certainly failed.

    Anyway, you guys are definitely good at bantering about beverages. Good job!

  • King Baeksu

    I only listened to the first hour up to the news part, but I do not think the title of the thread was addressed in a satisfactory way at all. Is the English media here relevant to Koreans or the Korean media? Not answered. Is the English language media here relevant to the outside world? Not answered. Again, we mainly get the myopic expat cybercentric attitude in which the Korean English-language media are judged — rather snootily and dismissively — by their relevance to the expat K-blogosphere, and in fact that issue was not even honestly addressed either, since the expat K-blogosphere is in fact entirely dependent on the local English-language media in an entirely parasitical and subsidiary manner. Get over yourselves already.

    Bart proved that he is no real journalist by the fact that he had an incredible source sitting right next to him and he failed to ask him any meaningful questions. Not only did Robert work at Korea's No. 1 newspaper (The Chosun Ilbo), he also reads the vernacular media here every day and no doubt could have offered many valuable insights into the local media landscape. You totally missed the story sitting right in front of your face, dude.

    Not that I really care, but I also thought it was funny when my name was brought up near the end of the first segment when gonzo journalism was mentioned — "That's very much Scott Burgeson's style" — and the response was a haughty "I don't know who that is" and continued on in its rather myopic, unfocused and irrelevant manner. A real journalist is curious above all else, but again that test was certainly failed.

    Anyway, you guys are definitely good at bantering about beverages. Good job!

  • http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com Brian

    Yeah, I don't really think you addressed the title completely either. It's a significant issue—whether the English language media is relevant at all or even reflective of Korea—and myself and others who read it would like some insight from insiders. I know Robert has said that it isn't on numerous occassions, but would have liked some amplification on that.

  • http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com Brian

    Yeah, I don't really think you addressed the title completely either. It's a significant issue—whether the English language media is relevant at all or even reflective of Korea—and myself and others who read it would like some insight from insiders. I know Robert has said that it isn't on numerous occassions, but would have liked some amplification on that.

  • Bart Schaneman

    For the record "King Baeksu," I wasn't on the show to work. I was supposed to be answering questions, not asking them. I know Koehler's line on the media in Korea — he's told me before if you want to be relevant as a journalist in Korea, do it in Korean. And he's right.

  • Bart Schaneman

    For the record "King Baeksu," I wasn't on the show to work. I was supposed to be answering questions, not asking them. I know Koehler's line on the media in Korea — he's told me before if you want to be relevant as a journalist in Korea, do it in Korean. And he's right.

  • Steve

    Some good questions were asked, but sadly they were all superficially brushed over. I think the potential was there, but the beer laughter, bringing up random irrelevant topics (California milk ads, "deuchebags", etc), and lack of ability to focus on one topic and instead revel in self-centered beer talk proved to be a waste of time to listeners. To spare your listeners next time, please drink coffee instead of alcohol, stick to a topic, and edit out the rambling. This could have been edited to 20 minutes max. What a waste of time.

  • Steve

    Some good questions were asked, but sadly they were all superficially brushed over. I think the potential was there, but the beer laughter, bringing up random irrelevant topics (California milk ads, "deuchebags", etc), and lack of ability to focus on one topic and instead revel in self-centered beer talk proved to be a waste of time to listeners. To spare your listeners next time, please drink coffee instead of alcohol, stick to a topic, and edit out the rambling. This could have been edited to 20 minutes max. What a waste of time.

  • aes8

    Damn Joe, when did you redircet your website's comment board to eslcafe?

  • aes8

    Damn Joe, when did you redircet your website's comment board to eslcafe?

  • http://www.yrad.com/cs/ karl

    ||Anyway, you guys are definitely good at bantering about beverages. Good job! ||

    I'm glad you grasp one of the appeals of the seoul podcast. Joe and Jennifer's podcast spotlight some cool people in Korea. They put a human face on expats. Yeah their podcast is rambling, doesn't stay on topic all the time, etc. It's 3 or 5 friends sitting around over beers. King B seems to want to make it into something it doesn't pretend to be.

  • http://www.yrad.com/cs/ karl

    ||Anyway, you guys are definitely good at bantering about beverages. Good job! ||

    I'm glad you grasp one of the appeals of the seoul podcast. Joe and Jennifer's podcast spotlight some cool people in Korea. They put a human face on expats. Yeah their podcast is rambling, doesn't stay on topic all the time, etc. It's 3 or 5 friends sitting around over beers. King B seems to want to make it into something it doesn't pretend to be.

  • Crwys

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=u

    A few months back you had that guy write a letter to a Korean News Paper…Hunter Davis…ANyway here is his Myspace page…I'm only on the September podcasts at the moment…ie listening to them

  • Crwys

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=u

    A few months back you had that guy write a letter to a Korean News Paper…Hunter Davis…ANyway here is his Myspace page…I'm only on the September podcasts at the moment…ie listening to them

  • Chae

    If you want a serious podcast, try to pick one that doesn't have a long dead Korean king snarkily kvetching about current events in first oh… 20 seconds or so. Not that I disagree about alcohol bringing down the general quality of the podcast. But last time I sat around with some friends and drank and talked for 3 hours, quality of our conversation was much worse than this one. Oh, and we had some naked women dancing around us, so that probably contributed to the quality significantly. (Mmm, Follies…)

    As for some of the topics that were discussed…

    Korean privacy laws perhaps aren't as byzantine and unreasonable to the natives. The concept of shame as punishment in Korea is that shame is itself a greatly punitive measure. Shame is not merely a collateral consequence of a criminal conviction. Many Koreans would see incarceration and/or fines as being somewhat redundant if the criminal was sufficiently shamed. And on the same note, many Koreans would see heaping shame on the convicted to be "cruel and unusual" if other punitive measures were taken against the criminal.

    Consider also that Korea is a pretty homogeneous society with not many surnames. If your child molester is named "Lee" then chances are, a sizable portion of Korean Lees is going to connected to him in one way or the other. If the entire name is published, especially with region of Korea where he's living in, the paper is going to piss off a lot of people whose family name is connected to that guy.

    Same thing with publishing face. It identifies not only the suspect but also his family, friends, co-workers, and other associates. I think you guys have commented more than once that in Korea, it's who you know rather than what you know. Implicit in that is a notion that within a group of related (by blood, school, region, or whatever)people, you will have interaction and co-mingling that are greater in extent and intimacy than other arms-length interactions. So there is a great sense of shame in being associated with people who have been disgraced because the assumption (and the fact, in most cases) is that you have something in common with that person and have dealt regularly with that person in matters that you have perhaps obscured from others. If someone is accused of something heinous in the US and the media tracks down his friend, his friend will most likely say, "Yes I know him, we were friends, and I didn't know he was like that." In Korea, you'll most likely hear either "I don't know him" or at best, "No comment."

    Regarding douchebag teachers. Certification of some sort probably will increase the quality of education and teachers in that it takes some planning and commitment on the part of the applicants. So while a certified teacher would not necessarily be a better human being than a non-certified teacher, it would attract a more career-minded people who would not "shit where they eat" as opposed to a stereotypical drifter who is more than willing to make a year in Korea a blackhole in his resume while he makes some money and bang some local women.

  • Chae

    If you want a serious podcast, try to pick one that doesn't have a long dead Korean king snarkily kvetching about current events in first oh… 20 seconds or so. Not that I disagree about alcohol bringing down the general quality of the podcast. But last time I sat around with some friends and drank and talked for 3 hours, quality of our conversation was much worse than this one. Oh, and we had some naked women dancing around us, so that probably contributed to the quality significantly. (Mmm, Follies…)

    As for some of the topics that were discussed…

    Korean privacy laws perhaps aren't as byzantine and unreasonable to the natives. The concept of shame as punishment in Korea is that shame is itself a greatly punitive measure. Shame is not merely a collateral consequence of a criminal conviction. Many Koreans would see incarceration and/or fines as being somewhat redundant if the criminal was sufficiently shamed. And on the same note, many Koreans would see heaping shame on the convicted to be "cruel and unusual" if other punitive measures were taken against the criminal.

    Consider also that Korea is a pretty homogeneous society with not many surnames. If your child molester is named "Lee" then chances are, a sizable portion of Korean Lees is going to connected to him in one way or the other. If the entire name is published, especially with region of Korea where he's living in, the paper is going to piss off a lot of people whose family name is connected to that guy.

    Same thing with publishing face. It identifies not only the suspect but also his family, friends, co-workers, and other associates. I think you guys have commented more than once that in Korea, it's who you know rather than what you know. Implicit in that is a notion that within a group of related (by blood, school, region, or whatever)people, you will have interaction and co-mingling that are greater in extent and intimacy than other arms-length interactions. So there is a great sense of shame in being associated with people who have been disgraced because the assumption (and the fact, in most cases) is that you have something in common with that person and have dealt regularly with that person in matters that you have perhaps obscured from others. If someone is accused of something heinous in the US and the media tracks down his friend, his friend will most likely say, "Yes I know him, we were friends, and I didn't know he was like that." In Korea, you'll most likely hear either "I don't know him" or at best, "No comment."

    Regarding douchebag teachers. Certification of some sort probably will increase the quality of education and teachers in that it takes some planning and commitment on the part of the applicants. So while a certified teacher would not necessarily be a better human being than a non-certified teacher, it would attract a more career-minded people who would not "shit where they eat" as opposed to a stereotypical drifter who is more than willing to make a year in Korea a blackhole in his resume while he makes some money and bang some local women.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/ZenKimchi ZenKimchi

    Thanks. That makes sense about shaming family and friends. I also agree about the raising of certifications to get rid of the doucebags. The trouble is the reality that Korea isn't the #1 destination in mind for serious teachers because of, well, many factors. The common complaints of cheating going on in the industry is a major turn off to potential serious teachers. Pay is also not attractive compared to places like Dubai and eastern Europe.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/ZenKimchi ZenKimchi

    Thanks. That makes sense about shaming family and friends. I also agree about the raising of certifications to get rid of the doucebags. The trouble is the reality that Korea isn't the #1 destination in mind for serious teachers because of, well, many factors. The common complaints of cheating going on in the industry is a major turn off to potential serious teachers. Pay is also not attractive compared to places like Dubai and eastern Europe.

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  • hardyandtiny

    Jesus Christ…shut the music off and screen the mikes.

  • hardyandtiny

    Jesus Christ…shut the music off and screen the mikes.

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