SeoulPodcast #52: Big White Barbie Does SeoulPodcast
Podcast April 27th, 2009
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The Korea Times — Opinion Section
PANELIST
Rebecca (Big White Barbie Does Busan)
MAIN TOPIC
Thank you Haydn Sennitt.
Don’t Be Like the West
An Australian Criticizes Koreans for Acting Like Americans
NEWS AND STUFF
Web Un-Wisdom – WSJ.com
Contrast and Compare
This Is Not How IT Superpowers Behave
Sweep of the Week
The [National Police Agency] apprehended a total of 1,477 people involved in prostitution during the first seven days, taking 14 of them into custody.
THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO WHAA?
Foreign Owned Firms Twice as Productive as Korean Firms
The Fast and Furious: Seoul Drift
[video]
School Violence Reports Going Up – because the laws requires them not to cover them up anymore. Check out Gwangju’s numbers.
Itaewon Burger King Murder to be Movie
EXPAT COMMUNITY
Foreigner-only taxis that foreigners don’t want to debut next month.
Jon Huer Asks: Why do Expats Complain So Much?
Are English Teachers Unhappy Here?
Basic Act on the Treatment of Foreigners in Korea translated into English.
Well, here’s some dumbassery from Andrew Eisenhart and from the proofreaders who let it in. From page 30 of this month’s (.pdf) Gwangju News, in an article about some street food vendor:
As I walk among the teachers of future generations striving for a late night feast we begin talking about what we are going to order like we had just smoked a huge joint and were walking to Taco Bell.
Facebook | The reality of our Korean contracts
TIME WASTERS OF THE WEEK
Bohemian Rhapsody Old School Computer Remix [VIDEO]
Tomatillo Grill — Cinco di Mayo Fiesta
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Kyle van Horn (Venceremos)
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Main Theme — Ben McPherson – “2wksnyc”
News — satya – “Silk Route Album Mix”
Things That Make You Go Whaa? — cjacks – “Candyland”
ExPat Community — Deyo – “Retro90210fun”
Time Wasters of the Week — EV Boyz – “Kickin’ It in Geumchon”
Byron Scullin
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April 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
So… Am I the only one not seeing this on itunes?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Thanks, Joe! It’s now downloading in Itunes.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Is it? Good. I think it was because I increased the number of posts allowed in the feed so you can get more back copies in iTunes. Crashed Feedburner in the process.
May 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Great podcast! I’m waiting for reruns of Bizarre Foods now.
May 4th, 2009 at 1:36 am
I’m a little late on this, as I managed to fall behind on an episode, but I died a little inside when I heard the ATEK promo at the beginning.
Still, I have a request: As you have a direct line to ATEK (and they love to dodge questions from the rest of the community) is there any chance you could do another Q&A will them?
I think they need to answer as to why they still insist on claiming representation for 25,00 people in press releases. Sure, they claim to be misquoted, but the newspapers are just reporting what they are told: http://ateknews.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/non-citizen-english-teachers-find-voice/
I would also like to know why they have been hyping all the hard work they have put into a book that amounts to little more than plagiarism:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=146956&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=750
(Keep reading, there are multiple examples).
I would hope the SeoulPodcast would give as much effort to ridiculing high profile plagiarism from foreigners as they do when a Korean is the offending party.
May 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
The plagiarism charge has been answered, here: http://atekforming.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/plagiarism/
>I would also like to know why they have been hyping all the
>hard work they have put into a book that amounts to little
>more than plagiarism.
We’re hyping it because the book is designed to help English teachers, and is helping them. The more people know about it, the more English teachers get help. And I think you should read it before you casually slinging accusations, such as “[it] amounts to little more than plagiarism.” The reason it took so much work is partly because of the original research. For example, I photographed ATM screens and had them translated into English. We’re a primary source on that one. And that’s not the only one. Take a look at it before jumping on the bandwagon, okay?
May 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Dude, the Korea Times article that they are saying is plagiarized doesn’t cite ANY sources, and since that professor likely wasn’t THERE, taking down the history over the last couple hundred years, don’t you think the Angry English Teachers of Dave’s ESL Cafe are doing a bunch of headhunting? Come on!
May 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I agree. The AETs on Dave’s are getting creepier and more psychotic. They’re starting to take on the rhetoric and tactics of the hate groups I knew of back in the South.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Sheesh, if a mere mention of ATEK makes you die a little inside, what makes you die a lot inside? Darfur? Current economic meltdown? Boshintang? Are you dead yet?
May 4th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I posted a comment on your site, Tony. There are more instances of plagiarism in the book than that. Accusing me of jumping on the bandwagon is a little low. I have commented on various blogs (including this) regarding ATEK in the past and I rarely visit Daves. The only reason I do is to keep an eye on the ATEK sticky because I do not agree with the way ATEK conducts itself. The idea of an organisation to help English teachers is fantastic, and I was an early supporter of the group, yet ‘equal checks’ showed just how arrogant the ATEK leadership are.
I have read the book. I liked it. The fact still remains that it (or parts of it at least) were stolen. It amounts to more than the Korea times article and wikipedia (though that should be enough). Other content was used without citation or permission.
When people accused you of being unprofessional in your choice of title for the book, you claimed you were unable to change anything after it had gone to press, yet you are able to fix this mess with a little ‘no harm done’ blog post and a promise to fix everything quickly.
I would guess that arrogance alone prevented you from changing the title.
May 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Oh, no… Is the witch hunt now bleeding over into the SeoulPodcast…? Go spread your rhetoric elsewhere. If you were a long time listener of the podcast, then you would have noticed the positive opinions/views held by some of the hosts towards ATEK. If the promo truly made you die inside, then I wonder how many years you lost off your lifespan during all of the ATEK interviews.
May 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I realise that Joe holds positive views about ATEK, and I have found the podcast to be a valuable source of ATEK related information.
That said, it is obvious that the podcast does not want any further input from the ‘psychotic’ members of the teaching community who do not want an amateur organisation to gather the press they have by claiming to be a voice for all teachers in Korea. They speak for 400, which is a lot less than the 25,000 they claim to speak for.
I’m done. I will not make the mistake of offering opinion about ATEK to the SeoulPodcast again.
May 5th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Mike! No! Offer more opinion – not less!
Witch Hunt! Witch Hunt! Witch Hunt!
Ian: “the positive opinions/views held by some of the hosts towards ATEK” Are you refering to Me as someone with other than positive views towards ATEK?
*ME*!?
Witch Hunt! Witch Hunt! Witch Hunt!
May 5th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Hehe. You were indeed the reason why I used the word “some”.
I’m sorry Mike… I was in a crabby mood this morning and was a bit of a dick in my response. I known that ATEK’s membership isn’t as large as some seem to think (I’m not a member), but I feel that a lot of the backlash against the group comes from non-E2 visa holders whose only beef with the group is on the issue of “equal checks”. ATEK seems (from what I have read/heard/seen on their site) to be about much more than just that one issue. The group appears to want to greatly improve things (and offer services) for foreigners working in Korea. I just can’t understand why a lot of people (not saying that you are one of them) are complaining against ATEK simply because of the “equal checks” issue.
May 6th, 2009 at 12:39 am
I will try to keep this brief as possible Ian, so please don’t take offence to the bullet points (they require less explanation than paragraphs).
- I have an F-Visa
- I work 1 job, 3-9pm, for not much more than the starter E-2 salary.
- I get more because I do not get flights. Simple mathematics.
- I do not WANT more jobs.
- Most of my friends have E-2 visa’s. I feel their pain.
- When I came to Korea, I got a health check.
- I was AIDS tested (PS job at the time) 2 months before I got my F visa.
- I submitted criminal checks as part of my PS job application. Immi waived them as part of the F visa app for this reason alone.
The Equal checks for all campaign was amateur, and ill-conceived. F-Visa holders already go through the same hoops as E-2 visa holders AND MORE. The outcome of the campaign could have only been one of the following:
1. FAILURE: ATEK do not want failure!
2. SUCCESS: F visa holders need to jump through even more hoops, which would cost them money (flights home for checks, etc), OR checks are dropped for E-2 visas.
Consider that it is unlikely that the Korean government will drop checks (and ask yourself, should they?) then the other ’success’ is that F-Visa holders get screwed for no reason. Costing me money impacts my ability to support my wife and child. Can you see why I have an issue with equal checks? Can you see why countless other F-Visa holders would also have an issue with that?
ATEK were offered this advice before their campaign launched, and they chose to ignore it. They prefer to gain media exposure on a non-issue, potentially impacting families here, than admit they were wrong. This has caused some serious damage to their reputation that, whilst not going away, they have opted to ignore.
The plagiarism issue is, in my mind, another instance where they rushed headlong into something without giving any consideration to how this could impact them long-term. As long as they are ignoring it (or posting about it on personal blogs rather than the ATEK homepage), they are again trying to sweep it under the carpet.
Myself? I agree that all teachers should be checked for criminal background and diseases. I am not keen on the drug test as I do not agree that Korea should be enforcing (or in some cases setting) the laws of other countries. The tests are happening now (except in the possible case of Kyopo’s)! I agree that E-2 visas should have greater freedom in Korea. Politically, I consider myself a socialist. I am a fan of unions, and of organisations that protect the vulnerable in society. I feel that ATEK are not protecting anybody. At best, they are providing information, and tainted information at that.
As it stands now, I would consider joining an organisation that exists to make the lives of migrant workers easier. That organisation is not ATEK. They are a risk to stability, and one that I feel needs to change, or disappear!
This is getting to be longer than I hoped, but I have strong feelings on this issue. ATEK refuse to accept criticism, censoring and dodging questions in their communications and only vowing to speak if you sign up to become a member. I refuse to become a member of their organisation, so I have to try and spread the word in public forums such as this. Say what you like about Dave’s, there is a lot of experience trying to speak sense under all of the bullshit there, and the ATEK issue is one that made me return there after an absence of 7 months.
Did I really die a little inside when I head the ATEK mention on the podcast. Nope… it’s a figure of speech. I was, however, disappointed to hear the podcast become a forum to advertise what is essentially (however they dress it up) a political organisation as the first thing people hear on the podcast. There was no dissenting voice. The Seoul Podcast is a very popular source of information for teachers in Korea, and believe it or not, quite an influential one.
I’m done. Sorry about the length.
May 6th, 2009 at 9:02 am
It’s all good! I totally understand where you are coming at. I will be changing to an F Visa later this year, and I would REALLY hate to have to go through all the hurdles once again just to teach middle schoolers.
With that said… The hurdles that I (and most people??) went through were not that much of a pain. The medical check was done in Korea, and it took all of 20 minutes at the local hospital. My father was able to get my criminal background check for me quite effortlessly at the local police office back in my home country. I got it sent by mail in just a few days. That was all… Nothing else… There was no need for me to fly home. If there had been, then I probably wouldn’t have come back to Korea (well… That’s a lie.. My fiance would have been a little upset
)
From what I see being posted in various blogs/forums about ATEK, I get the feeling that a great deal of the backlash comes from people on non-E2 visas who are worried about having to do extra steps in order to work/stay in the country. The issue of plagiarism (and I totally agree with you) only seems to be a recent occurrence that “anti-ATEK” bloggers/posters have used to further support their opinion. I feel that it wouldn’t have been as much of an issue if the group of “non-E2 Anti-ATEK haters” hadn’t formed in the first place.
May 6th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Mike and Ian:
I can’t speak for Joe (he’s the one who is burdened with having to find advertisers – which is no easy feat) but as a merciless capitalist I’m happy for anyone to advertise on the show.
The ad for ATEK was added in post so I didn’t hear it until I listened to the show well after we recorded it, but at the end of the show you would have heard me “raise an eyebrow” as we went down the list of advertisers / sponsors.
I like to think we are fairly balanced (politically anyway, not necessarily psychologically!) We’ve had on people from the right of the political spectrum and people from the left, and likewise we have heard from Pro-ATEK people as well as their dissenters – and I might be marginally considered one of those.
May 6th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Ian:
“With that said… The hurdles that I (and most people??) went through were not that much of a pain. The medical check was done in Korea, and it took all of 20 minutes at the local hospital. My father was able to get my criminal background check for me quite effortlessly at the local police office back in my home country. ”
And here is where the problem lies. ATEK (and others including the Korean Government) think that just because something is true in one country, it must be true for all.
In the UK, I can order my criminal record check. A family member can not. It has to be paid for in sterling.
The Korean government are trying their hardest to make Canadians get a vulnerable sector search. Some Canadians are managing, even though the VSS Is supposed to be for employers in country. The ones who are not able to get it are given some leeway at the moment, but that could change and Immi are insisting that soon enough all Canadians will get one.
The UK also have a VSS. It can only be applied for by certain UK employers, and NOT the general public. I can not apply for it. It is intended as the ultimate security for schools, babysitting services, supply teacher agencies, hospitals, etc. If Immigration pick up on this and request it, I would be forced to break a promise I made to my wife in that I would never force her to leave Korea.
Honestly, if Immi start requesting that, UK teachers are screwed. I do not want to be put into that situation because of some shortsighted planning on the part of an organisation with no mandate.
May 6th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
The point about sterling is one I forgot to elaborate on… I no longer have an easily accessed UK bank account, and do not hold a credit card (evil things).
May 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Than let’s end by agreeing on that! I hate credit cards too! Don’t own one… Never will! (I learned my lesson in university.. hehe
)